ETI 007 The top of the bounceDownload this podcast – You may need to right-click and select Save Link As to download the file to your computer
Top of the Bounce – Playing from above the net.
Watch the professional players who are adept at moving inside the baseline to finish the point. They will invariably make contact when the ball is well above the net, if not the absolute apex of the bounce.
And at this height (which is nearly always above the level of the net) the net is less an obstacle. In fact, in many instances it appears the stroke and follow through are almost level if not slightly down, that is they are driving the ball over the net but down and into the court.
And to my mind, the problem occurs when beginning to learn tennis. Grooving a low to high stroke often requires allowing the ball to drop low and into the heart of this particular swing. And further, this low to high thing works great when well behind the baseline, where the ball has had a chance to descend into the hitting zone.
But once this basic stroke is mastered, then you are off to bigger and better things, like moving forward and making something happen – and in this instance always at the top of the bounce.
39 Comments
Lorenzo
May 23, 2013Hi Jim…thanks for tying all this together. It all makes perfect sense now…I feel I’ve evolved. At my age it’s now just a matter of remembering all this…
Lorenzo
May 22, 2013Hi Jim…I’ve recently been playing on clay in that Ukraine and this Russia. Having grown up on hard courts in Southern California, I find the top of the bounce on each surface at vastly different heights. A good trainer (they call coaches trainers over here), and I determined that an open stance is more effective when dealing with a high bounce such as on clay, and a closed stance more effective on low balls, such as on hard courts.
I imagine it has not to do much with the surface, but with the height of the bounce.
Can you comment on this? What’s your take>
Jim McLennan
May 22, 2013Lorenzo – also has to do with the grip for semi western is more of an open stance grip and used on higher bounces where eastern or continental does not feel as good on high bounces (especially on clay) but the real key is that this MUST happen when moving inside the baseline to play an offensive shot
Jim
Q
January 17, 2013This works for me and many of my friends! It works because if you’re objective is to “watch the ball!” you can’t hit the ball at the top of the bounce without watching the ball!
Yes, it is probably easier to hit the ball over the net, by having the ball starting point as high as possible, but that is just an added benefit.
The only other adjustment I think you need to make at my 4.0 level, is to start back one step back farther than usual so that you are not hitting the ball at the top of the bounce late. You’re moving into the shot!
Not bad for a 70 year old Super senior who’s unforced errors have been reduced by 50%. Where do I send the check Jim?
Q
Jim McLennan
January 17, 2013Q – yes, and at some point the game becomes simple – watch the ball, move to the ball, play the ball at the top of the bounce – no need for a check just the smile I got from the email
Jim
Peter cheng
June 4, 2012Great comment and tips!
Dino
April 29, 2012Jim, another excellent tip. I’ve been using your tip for my approach shots and I was not aware of true benefit.
Let us know if you are going on tour for group instructions.
Larry Buhrman
February 23, 2012Hi Jim,
As always, your insruction is right on. When hitting high balls above my shoulders on my forehand, I visualize another Jim, Jim Courier, with that timed short backswing, racket head up, and the swing ACROSS the ball, right to left and down the way you are describing. This is a great shot hit with a semi-western or western grip. Moving up to take the ball early at the top of a high bounce with your body momentum moving into the shot takes away a tremendous amount of time from your opponent and results in an incredibly powerful and predictable shot.
This is not the old classic American Chris Evert forehand, but one of the rather early modern forehands hit with a great deal of SIDESPIN with the racket head accelerating through the contact point, rather than slowing down to a stop. The old style was more like connecting a line THROUGH, (rather than ACROSS), the contact point and pointing at the target, hit with an Eastern grip fairly flat.
Many old school tennis players strictly visualize a modern forehand like Nadal’s being hit up on from low to high, but actually he hits across the the ball as his forearm rotates not unlike your discription of the Sampras serve “the Sampras snap”! But, of course, on the low ball, the racket head drops down with the arm closer to his body, and he “buggy whips” up and across the ball with a windshield wiper like “snap” and a finish with the butt of the racket somewhat pointing at his target at the finish, rather than the old technique with the face of the racket pointing at the target at the finish of the stroke, which was hit with an Eastern grip and little to no forearm rotation or snap.
So, yes, those high forehands produce a tremendous amount of spin on the ball hitting down and across, not up, not flat, and not through!
Thanks again, for your brilliant analysis.
Larry Buhrman
Jim McLennan
February 24, 2012Larry – thanks, we had a pro from Brazil, Vinnie, who now works nearby and he hit and described this sidespinning high contact ball – he dubbed it “cross spin”
Jim
Alfred Salganick
January 3, 2012On “hitting above the net” – I was of the impression that hitting flat would only end up in the net as gravity would lower the ball and that beginning the stroke from below the contact point was essential to avoiding the net. It seems from your video that the ball would have to be hit from a position very close to the net and/or very fast if hit flat. I notice that the pro’s seem to hit the net quite often as they seem to hit flat shots regularly. I’ll do anything to avoid the net, even from inside the baseline. But I’ll certainly try your method and see how it works for me.
Many thanks.
Jim McLennan
January 3, 2012Alfred – yes gravity is a constant, and the ball must in most instances be lifted or hit up and over the net – but somehow playing at what is known as “the top of the bounce” is often overlooked or misunderstood by players who allow the ball to descend when they are playing well inside the baseline – that is what I was trying to suggest – keep me posted
Jim
Sally
December 6, 2011My coach teaches me low to high but the ball goes too high and out of the court.Now i’m trying to hit low to high but closing the racket face.I think i’ll do it Jim’s way 🙂
Jim McLennan
December 6, 2011Sally – thanks – but note, if the ball falls below your waist and you are well behind the baseline – then definitely swing low to high – but if the ball is above your waist at contact and you are on or inside the baseline – then this top of the bounce will work just great
Jim
Stefan N
October 1, 2011Hi JIM,
I follow with maximum atention and plesure your videos and comments. In my opinion, what they have in common is an aggressive and loose game of tennis ! With practice, all your lessons help to improve agressive skills.
Playing from above the net (Top of the Bounce) does not end well (in) if we have wrong grip tension (no loose).
My question is how is possible maintaining the proper grip tension after contact to the right finish position (with the same grip tension). Why a player choose to change upward grip tension in finish position, instead choose to maintain tension. He knows how it should be and still elect not as it should.
Practice shows that playing aggresive and loose tennis is a long-term goal.
Thank you Jim, you help me to love tennis and play more and more aggresive.
Jim McLennan
October 1, 2011Stefan – the related issue here is how comfortable you are when moving forward to meet the ball from inside the baseline – for truly the top of the bounce especially on somewhat short balls occurs in this area – all the pro’s move forward to finish points in this manner – and yes it is a long term goal
Jim
Nigel B
September 3, 2011Jim you have highlighted that tennis is a three dimensional game – most of us think in two dimensions up and across the court! Many years ago one English LTA youth coach I met drilled hitting at the top of the bounce but did not explain why – now I realise why! At roughly the same time whilst taking an elementary tennis teachers course hitting a falling ball between waist and knee height was in favour, I suppose to hit/swing up through the trajectory of a ‘falling ball’ applying top spin. Taking the ball higher and hitting down should improve consistency and make your opponents shots more difficult as they will more likely be hitting replies from below the height of the net. Certainly you have given us another shot to practice. Thanks.
Armand
September 1, 2011U never cease to amaze me Jim! Excellent!!!
Rodger Schuester
August 27, 2011I’m kinda upset with myself as I really need to get focused on this. Anyway, it finally got through the concrete. RodgerS
Stella
August 27, 2011A few times recently, I ran after a short ball near the sideline on my backhand side and angled it away with my two handed backhand without knowing how. Thanks to your video and your comment on Ken’s that I realized I actually hit those short crosscourt groundies exactly the way you mentioned – hit above the net and with a flowing swing from the hips. It felt effortless! I will try it at the baseline.
Ken
August 24, 2011So glad that I didn’t start learning tennis until later in life, just a couple of years ago. During that short duration, I’ve modified the ‘shape’ of my forehand swing so much (due to conflicting instructions from different teachers) that I’m finally settle on one that’s solid and similar to what you’ve described so nicely. You did a great job of asking questions that challenges the old methods!
As I’m getting older, I’m finding myself less flexibile with the shoulders and thus starting to have trouble with the one-handed backhand compared to last year. So just less than two months ago, after some success with one-handed backhand, I’ve switched to two-handed backhand for the reason that you described… so I can take the ball earlier and above the net with my backhand as well.
Jim McLennan
August 24, 2011Ken – thanks for the note, I am glad my material seems to help – on the backhand try and feel a flowing swing coming from the hips – Agassi said on his two hander that the forward swing up to contact was mostly pulled with the right arm, and the left hand and arm took over at impact and follow through
keep me posted and at some point lets talk about your serve
Jim
Rodger Schuester
August 23, 2011Timely for me to revisit this as I have been working the back court too much. As Brent reminded me, I need to get in there on the short balls and I need to remember top of the bounce.
Marc
August 23, 2011Jim, unfortunately I’m one of those self-taught players. I do exactly as you described…primarily staying back and pushing the ball up and over. I believe the reason I do it is not so much the forehand as it is the backhand. I find it extremely difficult to take a hit ball on the backhand side and get over it with a one handed backhand. For that reason (and others) I’ve been working on a two handed backhand. I find that with it I can move forward into the ball and take it at a higher point than before. I wonder if other players are staying back to provide coverage for their backhand.
Jim McLennan
August 23, 2011Marc – not sure why others stay and play back, might be their initial training, but playing the ball sooner and at a higher point of contact is one of the secrets of the game
Jim
Jack
August 23, 2011Jim I’m finally understanding your statement about well rounded instruction. This shot is awesome
but at the same time it’s not to be used on every shot. In the past I wanted a quick fix instead of being totally rounded . Thanks for a great lesson
Joannis Roidis
August 23, 2011Very intelligent form of teaching an apparent logical play. thank you.
Best regards,
yossi
August 23, 2011All you said is simply great just one more thing needed is an example and it will
worth 1.000.000 words and will be much more clear yossi
Jim McLennan
August 23, 2011Yossi – I have this material and much more in our product “Mastering the Ground Game” listed at the top of our ETI page under “dramatically improve your game”
best
Jim
Noushin Kananian
August 23, 2011Thanks for sharing. Great tip.
bhagi
August 23, 2011Great tip. I have noticed that on those balls, if I shorten the backswing, I make less mistakes. Trying to hit with a normal backswing sometimes causes the ball to fly.
Coach Paul
August 23, 2011Good tip Jim… you are so correct = we do not say much/anything about the bounce – especially during initial instruction with new players. Ironically, several high school beginners I have worked with swing at high balls (above the net) because most of the shots are semi-lobs… and therefore bounce higher than the net and hit near the service line.
The other aspect is the grip, especially on the forehand side. It helps a lot to use a semi-western grip for higher balls. I stay away from the full western grip… two handed backhands (which we always start kids with) work better on higher balls as well.
Once our high school players start to make good ball contact, we try to get them to ‘go after the ball’ more aggressively thus hitting on the rise and above the net, as you demonstrate.
Best,
David
August 23, 2011Thanks Jim, but, as others have pointed out, many short balls do not bounce above the level of the net. I struggle with trying to put away these low,short balls and often end up over hitting them. Perhaps a video on this problem would be helpful as well.
Jim McLennan
August 23, 2011David – I will work on a video, but more of these bounce above the level of the net than most people know – and if there is the slightest hesitation the ball appears low when in fact it wasnt – note that balls bounce 55 to 57 inches when dropped from a height of 100 inches (at the ball factory) and this same 55% thing occurs as shots are hit across the net
Jim
Rolando M. Lagarto
August 23, 2011Thank you so much Jim. I didn’t realize until now that it’s possible to hit the ball above the net level with the usual stance & swing/hit principle. I would try it tomorrow with my regular opponent & see/feel how it comes & go. God bless you Jim, warm regards & Shalom…
Jean
August 23, 2011Great vieo, easy to follow, and should we be prepared for more flexiblity when playing tennis, and not just be left in a time warp from early lessons!…..Thanks
Lefty Steve
August 23, 2011I’m older than school, and I was hitting with a 19 year old who had gone to the States in Michigan and who just had a very developed topspin, using the semi western bordering on western grip….I found myself having to hit on top of the ball from baseline, but I also found that my return shot was basically all shoulder/ arms, I couldn’t really get my body into the shot, as I can do when the ball is lower and I’m my balance and rhythm is entirely different. Coach Mac, I couldn’t put the racquet “in my pocket” at that height, how does one hit at the top of the bounce in this situation, and as you say, make something happen?
Jim McLennan
August 23, 2011Steve
I would have to see your forehand (on Youtube or somewhere) to be sure of the answer – but I suspect this high point of contact is unfamiliar and your old low to high swing habits are getting in the way here – playing from above the level of the net will actually become more important when you are not on or behind the baseline but when you move forward to play a short but high bouncing ball
Jim
Nick(UK)
August 23, 2011Good comment from the coach below..I agree with him…. Also if a player, especially a beginner receives a very high ball, it is imposiible to hit it at the top of the bounce as that would be well over their head ! So there has to be a method of teaching to hit the ball on the rise to nutralise the impending high bounce. I agree with Jim about a ball which is hitable above waist height, ala Federer`s finish, but it has to be the right ball. Finally if an opponent hits low and flat over the net , there is usually not much bounce but a skid, so again hitting on the rise would be my preferred method. However good video Jim.
Jerome
August 22, 2011Hi Jim
Ofcourse again a very relevant post of you. But the question is not why players let the bal drop untill they can hit from low to high, the question is: why don’t players understand the dynamics of the ballbounce itself? Because they are never taught that. In 99 percent of tennisinstruction it seems that the bounce of the ball doesn’t excist.
What I mean is: no coach I know tells his pupils that the ball of the bounce determines the way you have to hit it. Take a look at the Lessonslibrary at Tennisone.com, an excellent website… There’s all this talk about the ‘Milennium Forehand’ and how it’s much better than the ‘Old School Forehand’…But not one article even mentions that the bounce of the ball determines the contacpoint, the way you hold your racket, the way your arm moves, the way your feet stand, the way your hips move…
You are right that players should be not be locked in a style that requires them to let the ball drop to waistlevel. But I would enhance it: players should be taught that there is no perfect form to hit a tennisball. The bounce determines what you can do with it… or not.
Leave A Response