Learn the secret that unlocks the power of the Pete Sampras serve – call it forearm rotation
But first, experiment at the net before putting it into your own service delivery.
At the net put your forearm at the net level and parallel to the net strap, with the racquet head at right angles to your forearm.
Now practice quickly turning your hand and wrist such that the racquet head snaps forcefully against the net strap.
Take your time, keep experimenting – and once this feels somewhat natural – toss up a few (rather than tossing down a few) and see how it feels on the serve.
Hi Jim
Very interesting work and made me think of how I managed to develop this pronation at an early age by playing badminton . I took up tennis at 14 and could serve decent from the word go with my badminton technique already in place which means I dont need to think about how to serve.
Surely for Andy Murray a major issue is that his grip is slightly towards eastern forehand which makes it difficult to probate? The correct grip is fundamental to allowing yourself the opportunity to even attempt a Sampras serve?
However yo could have a good grip like Nishikori but poor instruction as you demonstrated him trying to reach up to the ball (as Bollitieri was saying) thereby impeding his rotational forearm speed?
Thanks as it reminded me to get my young students to play some badminton when young allowing them to feel the motion without overloading the shoulder at an early stage of physical development.
Would you say it’s too late for Andy Murray to change his serve grip or should he in your opinion Jim?
Ian Campbell
PCA Master Coach
Ian – thanks for the note on badminton – most of what I learned about the serve (playing and teaching) came from Don Kerr in New Orleans who was a badminton coach – and as to pro servers who could “experiment” I am never sure after years of habit building that anyone can truly move outside of the “box” – but there are simple drills that anyone can try – my favorite is telling time – that create the feeling of this action – placing a wrist watch on your right wrist – and choking up on the racquet – can you serve the ball across the net – and when totally done arrest the follow thru such that you can look UP to see your wrist watch – to do this the ball must be more above you and less out in front – keep me posted
Jim
Jim
the Sampras snap
great video. My problem is that the service motion is so fast that I struggle to transmit the net snap to a serve snap. You illustrate the Sampras snap but it is so fast I don’t know where the racquet is going.
Just see the start and the end. Wonder if we can have a slow motion video of yourself or the master Sampras going through the snap?
Many thanks
Paul Fitz
There is no question but what Pete Sampras’ serve was dominating and that he could put the ball anywhere he wanted on either a first or second serve, and with lots of speed, and spin. I’ve tried to use that “Sampras Snap” with some success but certainly not with the same success, so obviously I’m doing something wrong but I need to keep at it. Roger Federer has a beautiful serve and can also put the ball anywhere he wants, tho to me his serve resembles a trophy pose which is very hard for me to emulate at my age. The thing I most appreciate about your lessons is their simplicity and brevity. You do in a few minutes what other online instructors take a lot longer to cover. I also appreciate your obvious knowledge and experience, which comes thru loud and clear. I read and try to pass on anything you put on the internet. So keep it coming. You are the best, and I mean that.
Bruce – of upper grip moves to the eastern backhand this may work for you – but know that if the roll occurs more after rather than before contact – the ball has left the racquet face as the racquet continues rolling – hard to describe but true
Jim
Thank you Jim. Just to clarify the exercise. The player stands at the back fence and serves to the opposite back fence? And then from the baseline to the opposite back fence??
Nathan – try this where you are on the baseline – facing the court and the service box – then 20 serves across the entire court to the top of the back fence (100 feet away) and then 20 serves to the opposite baseline (78 feet away) then after this begin practicing your serve normally
Jim
I watched a video of yours where you said that Sampras used to warm up serves from the back fence to get the feeling of hitting up. I cannot find this video. please could you let me know where i can find it. Thanks
Nathan – with apologies, that particular video is within a product – Building the Serve from the Ground Up – the drill is called 20 and 20 but the instructional material is very similar to the podcast – but just for that drill the emphasis is different – and Sampras did that – so the coaches said – to imprint the feeling of swinging up
Jim
does this make sense?
Good point. You identified Sampras’ rotation properly. His rotation remains in his body plane: his left to right foot line, his hips line and shoulders line remain in almost the same plane during his entire service stroke. There is almost no rotation about an axis along his spine. At the end of the stroke his racket remains at the right side of his body. He “fuels” his rotation by stretching the left side of his body and then releasing it into rotation about an axis that goes perpendicular to his spine and to his hips line. There is more of rotation (angular momentum) when rotating the body in this plain, than when rotating at the same angular speed about the spine line, so when it finally gets into rotation about the wrist joint, the final step before striking the ball, the palm with the racket will move faster. This what makes Sampras’ service fast.
Of course, players’ Sampras included, use both rotations in their service strokes, in different proportions. The players must understand these two rotations, so when they get to their pick performance, they will know where to look for more.
Excellent – I know that Sampras also finished on the same side of his body and that is what really gave him the pronation snap and speed. I really have taken to heart several on-line instsructors that have used different techniques / examples to help simplify what pronation is. Brent Abel recommended wearing a watch and you should be able to read the time if you are pronating correctly. Jeff Salzenstein compared the pronation to holding a “dirty diaper” in the air when pronating – especially when attempting the kick serve. The serve is so counter intuitive because you think if you hit up on the ball (instead of out), you will hit the ball over the fence, but it is the hitting up that gets you the speed and over the net and the pronation that brings the ball down (spin applied) into the court with pace. Simple once you understand this.
Amazing words, amazing new teach, amazing coach. I think you can add pretty much every big server on the pro tour to the list of players who “naturally” serve with extreme forearm pronation… Marat Safin… Ivo Ljubicic… Goran Ivanisevic… the list is long. One interesting aspect is that it happens naturally if you do it right, and you can’t “feel it” until after the hit, when you become conscious of the hitting side of the racket facing out instead of in. But the thing that’s interesting for me here, coach (I’ve been trying this way of serving for years) is what you say here about unlocking the pronation by aiming up instead of forward. That might be the whole “secret” of it. However, congratulations for finally trying to teach something that has been wrongly taught for years… Imagine, even Novak Djokovic doesn’t understand this dynamic. He does it right, but when asked about his serve, said that he “snaps the wrist forward” (showing a bending forward of the wrist) because that’s what his coach taught him, without realising that’s not at all what he actually does when he serves! The mind is truly a mystery….
Franco – thanks, I will send you something about the “badminton clear” – that is where I got all this info and it took a while but ultimately made sense – I played badminton with our young son – and the clear gave him the same Sampras snap
Jim
Hi Jim, thank you so much for these last videos on the serve. I have always had difficulties understanding what pronation really means in this context – but this about that “you should be able to tell the time” is just a genius way to explain it – thank you for that it has made a huge difference giving me a much harder serve going high over the net – still it works best for me if I still emphazise the follow through – otherwise the serve tends to become too short. Is that because I need to optimise the pronation?
This snap, coupled with the lower toss you’ve suggested in the past, gives me much more control for the kick serve. With practice, I suspect I’ll get more “kick” too. I did experience some drop off in speed whether trying it “kick” it or not. Any suggestions?
Peter – hard to say without truly seeing your serve – but generally this is about racquet speed and whether you can get a comfortable swing which spinning the serve
Jim
Hi Jim – firstly love the quick video clips and your style of preaenting.
Question- what grip would you use best for the Samparas sanp serve to avoid hitting inside out on the ball, ( dad used to call it the american reverse swing back in the Pancho days)
Ive tried very succesfully with an extreme backhand grip in practice but inevitabley when playing for real the brain kicks in saying”no way jose” .
Essentially I know I need to train my brain to understand the technical logic with the correct grip -hence the question – which grip is correct?
Cheers
Simon
Simon – yes an extreme backhand grip does the trick – but it takes time to master it – there is another issue harder to explain – if you start rolling your arm too soon you will hit the reverse (as your dad called it) so the other issue is to “lead with the edge” as long as possible
Jim
you are the best on understanding the serve and how important it is even when it comes to the top guys. Did you see how much better Rafa served against Novak in MC? I know Novak had a tough day but Rafa did hit some big serves and did not get broken. ( not so good though in Barcelona
guess he knew he could win by spinning them in.
Jim, tried your Sampras snap and it works great. My serve percentage even increased with this method. My opponent told me that the balls kick up after the bounce. I also likes your response to Andy 38 days ago. Thank you so much.
Playing badminton is a good way to learn this pronation which creates a lot of racquet head speed. Donald Kerr showed me this when I was on the Tulane University tennis team in 1975.
Charles – thanks, Don was an excellent mentor to me – and has inspired nearly all of the work I have done on this over the last 25 years – includes a master thesis on elements used to teach the tennis serve – would you have a picture of Don anywhere or know where his family is these days – he passed away many years ago, and had been living in Waveland (which was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina)
Jim
Im in southern CA, no teaching pros here really talk about this concept – they say “it happens automatically” for lack of knowing anything about it. I video taped in slow motion all the major ATP guys at Indian Wells and guess what – they ALL did this sampras pronation after contact. Even though I bring this up locally and even show pictures to local pros of the top ATP guys, they all say don’t worry about that part, and it may even damage your shoulder to forefully perform this exaggerated pronation. Anyway, you are one of the few guys that actually talks about it intelligently. Bravo! My question is, can you incorporate this sampras snap motion with all serves, or is it just for kick serve? can you use it on slice? on flat? on topspin serve? Thanks and great work!!! Semms on slice you should penetrate through the ball and carve it – how can you pronate to this degree on a slice serve to the duece court for a righty?
Andy – to my mind that action occurs on all serves (if the server can use and feel it) but the spin is a matter when the racquet face snaps thru in this manner – for if the elbow leads every so slightly more and the action occurs a hair later the server will hit wicked sidespin (both Pete and Rpger do that) even though the action is the same – if you have any good camera angles on your footage – could I use some of it – if so who did you film?
Jim
Jim what a great teaching tool. Kids and some adults have such a hard time understanding the pronation concept. You have made my job much easier. I cannot thank you enough. Your the man.
Jim: I learned this from a Van Der Meer video 5 years ago. It worked for me, though I was a novice then. In the meantime I learned from too many different clinics and they all have said something different and more than once I got tennis elbow from what they were teaching. The serve became my weakest part of my game. I am going back to this tomorrow. Thanks for bringing this up
I tried this last week and it works, big time for me. At practice, I was consistently getting more pace and spin to hit the back fence with my serves. During match play, I hit double the number of aces and many more unreturnable serves. It takes some getting used to and I find during the match my serve tends to wonder back to what it was and I have to practice the horizontal supination/pronation routine between points to keep the feel going. I’m sure with some persistence it will feel more routine. Thanks Jim.
Jim.
Very good instructional video. I have been already practicing a lot with this forearm rotation movement. Sometimes I get good results and other times don’t. How to be sure that the ball doesn’t go like a crazy stone to anywhere when rotating the forearm? This happens so frequently to me when trying to rotate the forearm: the head of the racquet faces left or right in the moment of the impact with the ball, shooting it out of the court…. How can I correct this? I’d appreciate very much your valuable help…
Dario – this speaks to the art of the game and also to the thought that were this easy everyone could master the serve in one lesson – it takes practice, also the correct grip, and lots of rehearsals – I have products on this including Building the Serve from the Ground Up – as well as personalized stroke reviews – stay with it and be patient
Jim
Jim,
what do yoy recommend, the Sampras forearm rotation or the wrist snap in the smash? My smash has always been weak and without pace.
Kind regards,
Sigurd
Sigurd
a lot depends on your style, your rhythm and your grip – it is more common to flex the wrist – (wrist snap) but that may be a misnomer because that type of snap brings the racquet down and thru the ball – whereas this forearm roll brings the racquet across the ball with less down in the hit – at the end of the day anything that Sampras (or gonzalez or federer) did is good enough for me – consider a stroke review so I can see your serve
Jim
Hello Jim
Thanks for the video, it really helps to my serve.
After i trained my server just like the way in the video, my shoulder(deltoid) get pain.
Then i check the pronation move without holding the racquet,shoulder still hurts.
Is this pain usually happen or anything i did wrong ?
David – you must have done this wrong – but shoulder issues can occur when the grip is incorrect, the toss too far forward, the swing too muscular, or preexisting injuries – so I recommend you not perform this motion
JIm
Joe
– thanks for the note – and yes there is a full product stream I am selling on the serve, groundstrokes and more – you can access it all from the top nav bar of the essentialtennisinstruction.com homepage
Jim
I don’t think there needs to be anything different in the “Sampras serve” on the first or second serve other than ball toss. If I toss the first serve in front of me about a foot then my wrist and forearm pronate/rotate more and the resulting racquet angle puts less spin on the ball resulting in hitting a flatter, more powerful serve. On the second serve, if I toss the ball directly over my head, I cannot pronate as much and because of ball location at impact the racquet angle puts more spin on the ball and not as much power. To demonstrate this, go to the fence and stand about a foot away from it and go through the motion of the Sampras serve to simulate where you would contact your first serve, Next stand almost at the fence and do the same thing to simulate where you would contact your second serve. The differnce of ball contact point is obvious although you have changed nothing about your serve; i.e. you still use the same racquet speed and forearm/wrist rotation. There are other advantages to this service motion 1) you only have one service motion to learn and timing is better 2) your second serve will have more pace 3) it is easy on the arm and shoulder. One further point, I use an extreme eastern backhand grip which I think facilitates this sevice motion making it very auto-mechancial and therefore very consistent.
thank you very much for posting up this instruction video. It did gave me something to think about as I’ve reviewed quite a bit of the service mechanics of professionals.
I was wondering if this forearm rotation translate to more “punch” in the service and is more suitable for a service that is intended to be more flat than topspin or slice?
Dylan – a version of this is used in all serves – but with subtle racquet face or swing path adjustments – that is where the art comes in – consider a stroke review where I look at your motion – and or check out our product stream for yours is a detailed question
Jim
Jim
There is a counter-intuitive part: At the end Pete’s racket is facing to his right. When I tried to imitate Pete, all serves went to the right, even if I was trying to serve to the left. After thinking a little harder I realized that the hand has to be a bit ahead of the ball at contact, then and only then the racquet will face left at contact, and the ball will go left even if after the follow through the racquet will face to the right. It is basic Physics, others might call it common sense. I imagine that many people do not realize that. It must be one of the reasons why most of us do not look like Pete when we serve.
I think that I can do it in a flat serve. My question is how to incorporate this in a kick serve. I imagine that first I have to brush the back of the ball, and then at some point I have to leave the arm pointing up so that the racquet accelerates and the forearm rotates. As Vic Braden says:” when one segment stops, the next segment accelerates.” In Physics they call it conservation of angular momentum.
Any other tip on how to incorporate this in a kick serve?
Francisco – good call or catch on having the hand slightly in front of the racquet for the ball to go left – consider an extreme eastern backhand grip on your spin or kick serve – yes about conservation of angular momentum – I am trying to find a physical principle for kicking it – still working on that
Jim
Jim, … great video you have to give a broad insight about playing tennis like a professional, I will practice to improve my tennis game is right. The way you gave that explanation incredible. thank you
Thanks,Jim! After watching this video about the “Sampras Snap”, I just realized that I have been using this service motion for years without even realizing that I was doing something that much different than other players. As I was developing my serve over the years, I don’t believe that I consciously tried to emulate Sampras, McEnroe or the others. Perhaps, this motion came to me as naturally as it did for them. If so, I’m in good company! Thanks, again!
Dan – you are fortunate, some players come to this without really “knowing” but at the end of the day the game is about the doing – and sounds like you have been and are doing well
best
Jim
Ron – replacing habits, changing one to replace another is difficult, consider a stroke review so I could see your action – then it is easier for me to get involved – though the short answer is to move the toss less in front
Jim
Thanks for one of the best explanations ever on the serve! I recently took a serve lesson and got nothing from it. Your video allowed me to improve my serve and hit with confidence. I’m a solid 4.0 player and I went out and served six 40 love games!
I have been playing around with this for a few days having seen you mention it (I think earlier). I would add that once you have the concept you can get the action by hitting the serve by driving the butt cap at the ball (as strange as that sounds) rather than thinking about hitting the tennis ball.
I also find that what you do with your non-hitting hand is very important (I can see you have this nailed too, Jim).
Last night I played a set of singles for the first time in ages (I mostly play doubles). My first service game was my old-style serve, I lost it to 15. Then I remembered what I’d been working on and put it into action. My opponent, who was solid enough but not a great player, couldn’t control the ball at all. If a return did come in the court it was sitting up to be hit. It was a fantastic feeling.
I now just have that nagging concern that I’ll forget my new serve before I get to use it again on Thursday!!!
Another other option to reinforce this outstanding tip is to throw a baseball. The motion is the same and there will be a gross lack of control and velocity if you squeeze the baseball when throwing. Martin Hassner also has made a great discovery about practicing this concept on the court.
I have my students stand with their feet together while hitting serves and practicing the technique described.
And if you think this technique won’t provide you with the increased power and velocity that you seek, hit a few serves like this with your other hand. I am naturally right handed but can pop a pretty good serve holding the racquet in my left hand.
How do you apply the forearm roll you demonstrated for a slice serve or a spin serve? For the slice serve, do you do the forearm roll after you brush the side of the ball to hit a slice?
Candido – that truly is the art of the serve – look down in this comment stream and another commented on how Federer rolls his arm this way to create different spins and to different targets – we have an extensive product stream, and even the chance for you to do a stroke review – in the meantime there are many more podcasts to come
Jim
Hi Jim…. Watched the vid a few times & am a little confused – I thought it was impossible to hit a direct ‘flat serve’ that would travel in a straight line from one’s racquet then fall into the opposite service box Unless a person was about 10 feet tall plus full arm extension. This motion looks like it is being hit ‘down on’ the ball, not like ‘throwing your racquet head at the side (ish) of the ball’ then letting your wrist flow into a conventional pronation … I can understand this motion for a Overhead closer to the net – but from the baseline I would have to see the whole serve beginning to end in slowmo .. just my thoughts …
John – sorry we dont have the bandwidth to put slo mo in the podcasts – but keep trying to feel this – for certainly I made it look like Sampras and he is hitting up and not down on the ball
Jim
I’m definately trying that tomorrow at practice. Having struggled to generate meaningful power to my flat serve since taking up the game 4 months ago, hopefully this technique will unlock my ability to generate some pop to my 1st serve 🙂
Dear Jim,
Understood the bulb un-screw movement.
I already have some pain in the elbow (from too much tennis or from some incorect strokes)
And this bulb unscrew gives evon more pain to my elbow 🙂
Does this mean that i am doing it wrong? :-)Would you have an advise about tennis elbow?
will it go away at some point or can it easily get worse?
I am playing with a light racquet 285 g.
Bogdan – if it hurts then you should not do it – perhaps you have a chronic problem with the elbow – generally this is a light motion – but if it hurts then take some time off from tennis – and or get
Hello Jim,
In one of your first lessons about a year ago, I emailed you asking if you didn’t think that Sampras’ follow-through was not across the body but on the same (right) side and that’s what made his serve so good (and different). Your response was, “not really.” Look at the picture of Pete you sent out. He’s leaning to the left to get out of the way of his right-sided racquet follow-through.Agree?
Stan
Stan – that picture is taken right after the snapping hit – but truly his arm and racquet do now “flow” past his right leg – the motion decelerates quickly, but with his shoulder rotation to get him into a position to run to the net, that shoulder action does cause the racquet to move more left than right on the finish
Jim
worked on this at 8 am today with my playing partner.
tried it this way: no movement of the body…no dipping of the legs…no thought of trophy position.
just stood still…tossed lower but high enough to have to hit up and not through the ball (lower right shoulder to keep away from the R.C. pinch) hit up, kept the racquet face on edge until the last moment, rotated the forearm and wrist and got more power than I’ve ever seen. My partner, a much heavier hand than mine, got more power consistently than he’s ever gotten.
No jumping, no knee action, no body rotation, no leaping up and into the court to land on front foot…
none of it. Just stand, toss, hit up and rotate at contact…BANG.
some observations:the key is the rotation exactly at contact and the looser the arm, the more obvious the Sampras look at completion….we’ll film next week and send it along.
Wow! This is really an eye opener, especially for me. I am a senior player who has had wrist surgery. I have difficulty snapping my wrist. I have been using shoulder and forearm but have not had the snap. I’ll practice this.
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your insight. I’ve always admired Sampras’ serve, however, making the transference to my particulars, I thought I was doing it similarly, not so.
That little “heads-up” at the finish is the missing puzzle link! The video’s are helpful to me since I’m a visual learner! You can write all you want,seeing is more effective for me. Thanks for the video spot.
Hi Jim,
I’m in Morgan Hill, just south of San Jose, only 20 minute drive away from Los Altos Hills. It’s going to be a beautiful day for playing tennis today. I can’t complain too much about rainy weather…I could be in Seattle (where my wife works).
You are right Jim and a player can do this on a “flat” serve.
But how do you apply this technique on a topspin serve? May-be it will be a “wrist snap” up or something between up and forward?
Chavdar – that is the “art” of the serve – depends on the racquet face angle and the swing path – we have a full suite of products on all of this –
Jim
PS look through the comments to see what Sam wrote about this re Federer – it may help you
Interesting progression in the art of the serve. I felt I was missing something since my attempts based on your previous videos were inconsistent but promising. My guess is now that I was moving and swinging my arm too much versus utilizing the Sampras Snap motion. I’ll definitely try it in tomorrow’s match. Thanks!
Hello Jim, at what stage of the serve learning process would recommend to a coach to start teaching this stuff? Is that forearm twist essential on kick serves mostly? Thanks, Patrick.
LP – good question, they should have a good overhand throwing motion, and some fluidity in the serve – at least intermediate if not approaching advanced level
Jim
Amazing!
I didn’t miss a first serve for two games and I barely knew what I was doing.
It really takes the pressure off the wrist and shoulder. And you feel you can hit down on the ball. Change the grip slightly and you get a wicked slice. Power comes without effort.
Of course once I started thinking about it I missed some. It seems that you need to get the arm and racket in a slightly different place just before the hit to allow the rotation to come at the right angle. Can you give any help on where to place the racket just before contact? Or mental visualisation?
Thanks for a wonderful swing thought.
PS Is the forehand also a forearm rotation rather than a wrist snap?
Very interesting. I am french and i don’t understand all yours previous videos, but this one is probably more comprehensible and easier to apply
Thank you !
I would be sure to mention that the feel when you do this should be loose and whippy. If you squeeze the racket hard and do that forearm roll in a stiff and forceful way, you’ll end up with a sore elbow.
Jim, this is an excellent insight – I spend a lot of time trying to persuade beginners to go from a waiter’s tray/frying pan serve (eastern forehand grip) to chopper grip, and it is difficult to come up with clinching arguments to get them to change, that don’t blind them with obscure biomechanics. But it is physically impossible to do the Sampras Snap in an Eastern Forehand grip, so I can easily show that without using a chopper grip, they will never get the racquet head speed they need to develope a serve with spin and penetration. Thanks.
This was one of the things I was struggling with forever. Funny, that after Saturday’s game where I was serving abismally, I went to my home court, set on sorting out serving issues. I’ve always struggled with power on my serves. So I decided to try and figure out how the forearm turn really worked. Since in the MTKS2 you said power is generated with the arm turn.
So what I did was to put the racket behind my back, toss the ball up and try to hit up with the forearm turn at the ball contact. And to my surprise, the first time I did it right, it felt so natural and the ball went in. I was quite surprised. I thought it must have been a fluke. So I tried again and again the ball went in. I must admit its more like a flat serve than a kick. But the important bit for me is that my success ratio’s changed. I’m now missing maybe 2-4 out of every 20 serves. Where before I was maybe making 6-8 out of 20.
At this point I’m a very happy tennis player. So much so, that on Sunday I was back at the court practicing (just to make sure I wasn’t dreaming). I then tried to increase racquet head speed with some really awesome results kicking the serve. The one thing I still need to work on is Toss consistency. Get the toss right and with the new racquet swing/arm turn action I can get very good kick, but alas, the toss is very inconsistent. So next for me is to keep practicing the Toss. The torn in my side since I started playing tennis.
Marcus – slow down your tossing motion, release the ball at eye level, toss lower than normal (a little) and swing continuously – think of serving tall without tossing overly high
Jim
Since I play badminton as well as tennis, the ‘Pete Sampras snap’ is actually the regular badminton snap used for all overhead shots: smash, clear, etc. In badminton, at the arm level, the overhead shot is started with the elbow leading the way, then at impact, the elbow locks, then the forearm snaps in, then the wrist snaps in, then the whole arm continuous on to the follow-through up and away and across the body.
Vipm – thanks for the note, nearly all of my teaching materials on the serve came from my work with a college tennis coach who had been on the international badminton circuit with Ken Davidson many many years ago – my son and I played badminton when he was very young, I always hit the shuttlecock high and over his head – and his clear became his serve which is now truly amazing
best
Jim
At some point upload your serve to Youtube I would like to see it
Hi Jim,
Thank you for yet another great podcast. I have been watching slow motion videos of Roger Federer on “flat, slice, and kick serves, and I see that he does rotate his right forearm on all of them. It looks like the amount of spin and direction simply depends on what happens at the point of ball contact, meaning which direction the racquet face is moving (up, or up and to the right) and how much (or little) brushing is done. I think the forearm rotation adds speed to the racquet head regardless of which type of serve is being performed. But it amazes me how fast Fed can rotate the arm and still be able to hit a ball at the right instant. I get dizzy just following his racquet head movement, even when done in slow motion (lol). Now that the rain has moved out of the Bay Area for 2-3 days, I will be back out practicing again…
The root cause of the forearm rotation you described is the forearm rotation in opposite direction behind his back. He is not bringing his right arm to the trophy position. The trophy position is passed during this unique continuous rotation of the forearm behind his back. This rotation helps him to keep his wrist relaxed since he is not directing the head of the tennis racket down like everybody else who was instructed to bring it down by the conscious effort. Instead, this forearm rotation allows the head of the tennis racket to drop down by itself resulting in the initiation of the elbow move up. Nothing is forced it is just happening.
aloha Jim,
my son has been playing for a few years…he is right handed and constantly hitting his left shin on the serve…any ideas? I might have to have him start wearing shin guards. thanks Lee
Lee – hard to say without seeing this (you might consider a stroke review) but if the racquet head snaps sometimes that acceleration carries down to the left shin – but generally that should not happen – might be he doesn’t fully turn his shoulders on the follow thru, also might mean he has too much arm speed in the follow thru – but the serve is so darn important have him stay with it – and if looking for a coach – not all coaches are equally adept at coaching this – ask around in your neck of the woods to find the “specialist”
Jim
This I like. Because you demonstrated exactly the sequence. Now I can go and work on it, and if I do not get it right, I can come back check to see what I am supposed to do.
I know I am successful when I do it right. But without knowing what I need to do I cannot be successful, nor can I correct myself.
This is is in sharp contrast to your kick serve instruction where you show how to brush, and how to snap, but not when to transition from brushing to snapping in the stroke. I can practice all I want, if I do not know when to make that transition I can only get it right by accident.
ah…another great piece about the ultimate forearm-turn..
but whatever happened to the new subscription series on the kick serve?
Have I miss it?..I know you had some big plans…
but I remember an early November date…
could I have missed it?
Jim,
Very interesting. I have seen that forearm position often with Sampras’s serve and wondered about its significance. After your presentation, you convince me that it is something that I should try to incorporate into my service motion.
Thanks for the insight
Jim, i think i am serving without this forearm rotation, as if i would hit the ball with the palm of my hand. i will try tomorrow this tip on the tennis court to see the difference on the serve.
Pete – yes and no, everyone calls it pronation, and the wrist is implied in this, but genuinely I believe prone and pronation suggest something that is either down or moving down – so yes you are right but my own interpretation is about snap, about rotation, about whip, and at the end of the day about hitting up rather than down on the ball
Jim
123 Comments
Ian Campbell
December 17, 2015Hi Jim
Very interesting work and made me think of how I managed to develop this pronation at an early age by playing badminton . I took up tennis at 14 and could serve decent from the word go with my badminton technique already in place which means I dont need to think about how to serve.
Surely for Andy Murray a major issue is that his grip is slightly towards eastern forehand which makes it difficult to probate? The correct grip is fundamental to allowing yourself the opportunity to even attempt a Sampras serve?
However yo could have a good grip like Nishikori but poor instruction as you demonstrated him trying to reach up to the ball (as Bollitieri was saying) thereby impeding his rotational forearm speed?
Thanks as it reminded me to get my young students to play some badminton when young allowing them to feel the motion without overloading the shoulder at an early stage of physical development.
Would you say it’s too late for Andy Murray to change his serve grip or should he in your opinion Jim?
Ian Campbell
PCA Master Coach
Jim McLennan
December 18, 2015Ian – thanks for the note on badminton – most of what I learned about the serve (playing and teaching) came from Don Kerr in New Orleans who was a badminton coach – and as to pro servers who could “experiment” I am never sure after years of habit building that anyone can truly move outside of the “box” – but there are simple drills that anyone can try – my favorite is telling time – that create the feeling of this action – placing a wrist watch on your right wrist – and choking up on the racquet – can you serve the ball across the net – and when totally done arrest the follow thru such that you can look UP to see your wrist watch – to do this the ball must be more above you and less out in front – keep me posted
Jim
paulf
August 23, 2015Jim
the Sampras snap
great video. My problem is that the service motion is so fast that I struggle to transmit the net snap to a serve snap. You illustrate the Sampras snap but it is so fast I don’t know where the racquet is going.
Just see the start and the end. Wonder if we can have a slow motion video of yourself or the master Sampras going through the snap?
Many thanks
Paul Fitz
Jim McLennan
August 24, 2015Paul – this is a good idea re the slow motion – give me a few days to work on this – sometime in mid September as we are away on holiday right now
Jim
Bud Light
August 20, 2015There is no question but what Pete Sampras’ serve was dominating and that he could put the ball anywhere he wanted on either a first or second serve, and with lots of speed, and spin. I’ve tried to use that “Sampras Snap” with some success but certainly not with the same success, so obviously I’m doing something wrong but I need to keep at it. Roger Federer has a beautiful serve and can also put the ball anywhere he wants, tho to me his serve resembles a trophy pose which is very hard for me to emulate at my age. The thing I most appreciate about your lessons is their simplicity and brevity. You do in a few minutes what other online instructors take a lot longer to cover. I also appreciate your obvious knowledge and experience, which comes thru loud and clear. I read and try to pass on anything you put on the internet. So keep it coming. You are the best, and I mean that.
Bruce
February 11, 2015The forearm roll makes sense to me on the “flat” serve but is difficult for me to envision on the slice.
Any clues?
Jim McLennan
February 11, 2015Bruce – of upper grip moves to the eastern backhand this may work for you – but know that if the roll occurs more after rather than before contact – the ball has left the racquet face as the racquet continues rolling – hard to describe but true
Jim
Nathan
January 14, 2015Thank you Jim. Just to clarify the exercise. The player stands at the back fence and serves to the opposite back fence? And then from the baseline to the opposite back fence??
Jim McLennan
January 14, 2015Nathan – try this where you are on the baseline – facing the court and the service box – then 20 serves across the entire court to the top of the back fence (100 feet away) and then 20 serves to the opposite baseline (78 feet away) then after this begin practicing your serve normally
Jim
Nathan
January 13, 2015I watched a video of yours where you said that Sampras used to warm up serves from the back fence to get the feeling of hitting up. I cannot find this video. please could you let me know where i can find it. Thanks
Jim McLennan
January 13, 2015Nathan – with apologies, that particular video is within a product – Building the Serve from the Ground Up – the drill is called 20 and 20 but the instructional material is very similar to the podcast – but just for that drill the emphasis is different – and Sampras did that – so the coaches said – to imprint the feeling of swinging up
Jim
does this make sense?
Shmuel Goldberg
October 28, 2014Good point. You identified Sampras’ rotation properly. His rotation remains in his body plane: his left to right foot line, his hips line and shoulders line remain in almost the same plane during his entire service stroke. There is almost no rotation about an axis along his spine. At the end of the stroke his racket remains at the right side of his body. He “fuels” his rotation by stretching the left side of his body and then releasing it into rotation about an axis that goes perpendicular to his spine and to his hips line. There is more of rotation (angular momentum) when rotating the body in this plain, than when rotating at the same angular speed about the spine line, so when it finally gets into rotation about the wrist joint, the final step before striking the ball, the palm with the racket will move faster. This what makes Sampras’ service fast.
Of course, players’ Sampras included, use both rotations in their service strokes, in different proportions. The players must understand these two rotations, so when they get to their pick performance, they will know where to look for more.
Larry Kosowsky
September 11, 2014If you turn your forearm like Pete Sampas’ model, where on the ball are you hitting?
With this motion it would seem you would hit the ball at 9 o’clock. Can you hit the ball at 3 o’clock and still turn your forearm this way?
Can you still hit the ball from 8:00 to 2:00 with this motion?
ming
February 8, 2017Good question! 🙂
I think that facing to the right side of the court, changes the diagrams a bit? Also facing a bit upward. Also…
Tim Puckett
November 8, 2013Excellent – I know that Sampras also finished on the same side of his body and that is what really gave him the pronation snap and speed. I really have taken to heart several on-line instsructors that have used different techniques / examples to help simplify what pronation is. Brent Abel recommended wearing a watch and you should be able to read the time if you are pronating correctly. Jeff Salzenstein compared the pronation to holding a “dirty diaper” in the air when pronating – especially when attempting the kick serve. The serve is so counter intuitive because you think if you hit up on the ball (instead of out), you will hit the ball over the fence, but it is the hitting up that gets you the speed and over the net and the pronation that brings the ball down (spin applied) into the court with pace. Simple once you understand this.
rick
July 9, 2013Great stuff love it thanks so easy to see
Franco
April 28, 2013Amazing words, amazing new teach, amazing coach. I think you can add pretty much every big server on the pro tour to the list of players who “naturally” serve with extreme forearm pronation… Marat Safin… Ivo Ljubicic… Goran Ivanisevic… the list is long. One interesting aspect is that it happens naturally if you do it right, and you can’t “feel it” until after the hit, when you become conscious of the hitting side of the racket facing out instead of in. But the thing that’s interesting for me here, coach (I’ve been trying this way of serving for years) is what you say here about unlocking the pronation by aiming up instead of forward. That might be the whole “secret” of it. However, congratulations for finally trying to teach something that has been wrongly taught for years… Imagine, even Novak Djokovic doesn’t understand this dynamic. He does it right, but when asked about his serve, said that he “snaps the wrist forward” (showing a bending forward of the wrist) because that’s what his coach taught him, without realising that’s not at all what he actually does when he serves! The mind is truly a mystery….
Jim McLennan
April 28, 2013Franco – thanks, I will send you something about the “badminton clear” – that is where I got all this info and it took a while but ultimately made sense – I played badminton with our young son – and the clear gave him the same Sampras snap
Jim
Andy Gray
April 25, 2013I know this process but have not seen it illustrated in such a clever but simple way. This will help me a great deal thank you.
Ahsen
April 12, 2013Dear Jim all I can say is WOW ! This was awesome for me as I added another 15 % atleast on my serve. Very easy to understand and implement, Well Done.
I was wondering do you have anything on the kick serve.
Thanks
Jim McLennan
April 12, 2013Ahsen – check out our full product line – we have quite an extensive lesson sequence within MTKS as well as articles in the ETI Network
Jim
hans brink
November 7, 2012I have to find out how to pay but I definitely order your instruction because for me it’s so clear the way you explain it
Jim McLennan
November 7, 2012Hans – thanks for the note – here is a link to the online coursework – I recommend BTS 3.0
https://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/products/
Jim
Klaus
September 12, 2012Hi Jim, thank you so much for these last videos on the serve. I have always had difficulties understanding what pronation really means in this context – but this about that “you should be able to tell the time” is just a genius way to explain it – thank you for that it has made a huge difference giving me a much harder serve going high over the net – still it works best for me if I still emphazise the follow through – otherwise the serve tends to become too short. Is that because I need to optimise the pronation?
Cheers
Klaus
Peter Christ
July 16, 2012This snap, coupled with the lower toss you’ve suggested in the past, gives me much more control for the kick serve. With practice, I suspect I’ll get more “kick” too. I did experience some drop off in speed whether trying it “kick” it or not. Any suggestions?
Jim McLennan
July 16, 2012Peter – hard to say without truly seeing your serve – but generally this is about racquet speed and whether you can get a comfortable swing which spinning the serve
Jim
harlan
June 12, 2012Great stuff Jim. Your analysis and common sense style are truly eye opening, and easy to follow/understand. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
doug wilson
June 12, 2012Hi Jim… Can this snap and forearm roll work for the slice serve?
Cheers Doug.
Simon
May 31, 2012Hi Jim – firstly love the quick video clips and your style of preaenting.
Question- what grip would you use best for the Samparas sanp serve to avoid hitting inside out on the ball, ( dad used to call it the american reverse swing back in the Pancho days)
Ive tried very succesfully with an extreme backhand grip in practice but inevitabley when playing for real the brain kicks in saying”no way jose” .
Essentially I know I need to train my brain to understand the technical logic with the correct grip -hence the question – which grip is correct?
Cheers
Simon
Jim McLennan
May 31, 2012Simon – yes an extreme backhand grip does the trick – but it takes time to master it – there is another issue harder to explain – if you start rolling your arm too soon you will hit the reverse (as your dad called it) so the other issue is to “lead with the edge” as long as possible
Jim
Joe DeRosa
May 1, 2012Jim,
you are the best on understanding the serve and how important it is even when it comes to the top guys. Did you see how much better Rafa served against Novak in MC? I know Novak had a tough day but Rafa did hit some big serves and did not get broken. ( not so good though in Barcelona
guess he knew he could win by spinning them in.
Joe
Dino
April 29, 2012Jim, tried your Sampras snap and it works great. My serve percentage even increased with this method. My opponent told me that the balls kick up after the bounce. I also likes your response to Andy 38 days ago. Thank you so much.
Charles Kurzweg
April 5, 2012Playing badminton is a good way to learn this pronation which creates a lot of racquet head speed. Donald Kerr showed me this when I was on the Tulane University tennis team in 1975.
Jim McLennan
April 5, 2012Charles – thanks, Don was an excellent mentor to me – and has inspired nearly all of the work I have done on this over the last 25 years – includes a master thesis on elements used to teach the tennis serve – would you have a picture of Don anywhere or know where his family is these days – he passed away many years ago, and had been living in Waveland (which was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina)
Jim
andy
March 21, 2012Im in southern CA, no teaching pros here really talk about this concept – they say “it happens automatically” for lack of knowing anything about it. I video taped in slow motion all the major ATP guys at Indian Wells and guess what – they ALL did this sampras pronation after contact. Even though I bring this up locally and even show pictures to local pros of the top ATP guys, they all say don’t worry about that part, and it may even damage your shoulder to forefully perform this exaggerated pronation. Anyway, you are one of the few guys that actually talks about it intelligently. Bravo! My question is, can you incorporate this sampras snap motion with all serves, or is it just for kick serve? can you use it on slice? on flat? on topspin serve? Thanks and great work!!! Semms on slice you should penetrate through the ball and carve it – how can you pronate to this degree on a slice serve to the duece court for a righty?
Jim McLennan
March 22, 2012Andy – to my mind that action occurs on all serves (if the server can use and feel it) but the spin is a matter when the racquet face snaps thru in this manner – for if the elbow leads every so slightly more and the action occurs a hair later the server will hit wicked sidespin (both Pete and Rpger do that) even though the action is the same – if you have any good camera angles on your footage – could I use some of it – if so who did you film?
Jim
Buz Couturier
February 13, 2012YES!!!….kick serve al a mode!!
A. Scott
February 12, 2012Jim what a great teaching tool. Kids and some adults have such a hard time understanding the pronation concept. You have made my job much easier. I cannot thank you enough. Your the man.
RANDOLPH SCOTT
January 21, 2012GREAT TIP! IT INCREASED MY RACKET HEAD SPEED, WHICH AMPED UP MY FLAT SERVE AND IMPROVED MY SLICE SERVE. THIS TIP REALLY SIMPLIFIED MY SERVE MOTION.
THANKS, RANDOLPH
Mary
January 5, 2012Jim: I learned this from a Van Der Meer video 5 years ago. It worked for me, though I was a novice then. In the meantime I learned from too many different clinics and they all have said something different and more than once I got tennis elbow from what they were teaching. The serve became my weakest part of my game. I am going back to this tomorrow. Thanks for bringing this up
Sally
December 4, 2011My serve is getting so much better thanks to you Jim and i’m 52 yrs old :-))
Jim McLennan
December 4, 2011Sally
thanks
Jim
Imran
November 29, 2011Hi Jim,
I tried this last week and it works, big time for me. At practice, I was consistently getting more pace and spin to hit the back fence with my serves. During match play, I hit double the number of aces and many more unreturnable serves. It takes some getting used to and I find during the match my serve tends to wonder back to what it was and I have to practice the horizontal supination/pronation routine between points to keep the feel going. I’m sure with some persistence it will feel more routine. Thanks Jim.
Dario Miranda
November 28, 2011Jim.
Very good instructional video. I have been already practicing a lot with this forearm rotation movement. Sometimes I get good results and other times don’t. How to be sure that the ball doesn’t go like a crazy stone to anywhere when rotating the forearm? This happens so frequently to me when trying to rotate the forearm: the head of the racquet faces left or right in the moment of the impact with the ball, shooting it out of the court…. How can I correct this? I’d appreciate very much your valuable help…
Jim McLennan
November 28, 2011Dario – this speaks to the art of the game and also to the thought that were this easy everyone could master the serve in one lesson – it takes practice, also the correct grip, and lots of rehearsals – I have products on this including Building the Serve from the Ground Up – as well as personalized stroke reviews – stay with it and be patient
Jim
Sigurd Vitols
November 25, 2011Jim,
what do yoy recommend, the Sampras forearm rotation or the wrist snap in the smash? My smash has always been weak and without pace.
Kind regards,
Sigurd
Jim McLennan
November 25, 2011Sigurd
a lot depends on your style, your rhythm and your grip – it is more common to flex the wrist – (wrist snap) but that may be a misnomer because that type of snap brings the racquet down and thru the ball – whereas this forearm roll brings the racquet across the ball with less down in the hit – at the end of the day anything that Sampras (or gonzalez or federer) did is good enough for me – consider a stroke review so I can see your serve
Jim
David
November 25, 2011Hello Jim
Thanks for the video, it really helps to my serve.
After i trained my server just like the way in the video, my shoulder(deltoid) get pain.
Then i check the pronation move without holding the racquet,shoulder still hurts.
Is this pain usually happen or anything i did wrong ?
Jim McLennan
November 25, 2011David – you must have done this wrong – but shoulder issues can occur when the grip is incorrect, the toss too far forward, the swing too muscular, or preexisting injuries – so I recommend you not perform this motion
JIm
Joe Mott
November 24, 2011this was great. I am interested in your “Building the Serve from the Ground Up”. Is there a cost?
Joe
Jim McLennan
November 24, 2011Joe
– thanks for the note – and yes there is a full product stream I am selling on the serve, groundstrokes and more – you can access it all from the top nav bar of the essentialtennisinstruction.com homepage
Jim
Joe Partain
November 24, 2011I don’t think there needs to be anything different in the “Sampras serve” on the first or second serve other than ball toss. If I toss the first serve in front of me about a foot then my wrist and forearm pronate/rotate more and the resulting racquet angle puts less spin on the ball resulting in hitting a flatter, more powerful serve. On the second serve, if I toss the ball directly over my head, I cannot pronate as much and because of ball location at impact the racquet angle puts more spin on the ball and not as much power. To demonstrate this, go to the fence and stand about a foot away from it and go through the motion of the Sampras serve to simulate where you would contact your first serve, Next stand almost at the fence and do the same thing to simulate where you would contact your second serve. The differnce of ball contact point is obvious although you have changed nothing about your serve; i.e. you still use the same racquet speed and forearm/wrist rotation. There are other advantages to this service motion 1) you only have one service motion to learn and timing is better 2) your second serve will have more pace 3) it is easy on the arm and shoulder. One further point, I use an extreme eastern backhand grip which I think facilitates this sevice motion making it very auto-mechancial and therefore very consistent.
Dylan
November 22, 2011Dear Jim,
thank you very much for posting up this instruction video. It did gave me something to think about as I’ve reviewed quite a bit of the service mechanics of professionals.
I was wondering if this forearm rotation translate to more “punch” in the service and is more suitable for a service that is intended to be more flat than topspin or slice?
Hope to hear from you, thank you!
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Dylan – a version of this is used in all serves – but with subtle racquet face or swing path adjustments – that is where the art comes in – consider a stroke review where I look at your motion – and or check out our product stream for yours is a detailed question
Jim
Francisco Barahona
November 22, 2011Jim
There is a counter-intuitive part: At the end Pete’s racket is facing to his right. When I tried to imitate Pete, all serves went to the right, even if I was trying to serve to the left. After thinking a little harder I realized that the hand has to be a bit ahead of the ball at contact, then and only then the racquet will face left at contact, and the ball will go left even if after the follow through the racquet will face to the right. It is basic Physics, others might call it common sense. I imagine that many people do not realize that. It must be one of the reasons why most of us do not look like Pete when we serve.
I think that I can do it in a flat serve. My question is how to incorporate this in a kick serve. I imagine that first I have to brush the back of the ball, and then at some point I have to leave the arm pointing up so that the racquet accelerates and the forearm rotates. As Vic Braden says:” when one segment stops, the next segment accelerates.” In Physics they call it conservation of angular momentum.
Any other tip on how to incorporate this in a kick serve?
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Francisco – good call or catch on having the hand slightly in front of the racquet for the ball to go left – consider an extreme eastern backhand grip on your spin or kick serve – yes about conservation of angular momentum – I am trying to find a physical principle for kicking it – still working on that
Jim
Azar
November 22, 2011Jim, … great video you have to give a broad insight about playing tennis like a professional, I will practice to improve my tennis game is right. The way you gave that explanation incredible. thank you
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Azar – thanks
Jim
Dan
November 22, 2011Thanks,Jim! After watching this video about the “Sampras Snap”, I just realized that I have been using this service motion for years without even realizing that I was doing something that much different than other players. As I was developing my serve over the years, I don’t believe that I consciously tried to emulate Sampras, McEnroe or the others. Perhaps, this motion came to me as naturally as it did for them. If so, I’m in good company! Thanks, again!
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Dan – you are fortunate, some players come to this without really “knowing” but at the end of the day the game is about the doing – and sounds like you have been and are doing well
best
Jim
Jeff Edmondson
November 22, 2011Best tennis tip I have ever seen!
Ron
November 22, 2011Question on keeping elbow back on kick serve…how do you recommend developing a new habit?
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Ron – replacing habits, changing one to replace another is difficult, consider a stroke review so I could see your action – then it is easier for me to get involved – though the short answer is to move the toss less in front
Jim
Ron
November 22, 2011Jim:
I’m getting the same lateral epicondyle pain in my elbow from unscrewing bulb action
ice and Motrin helps
Jim McLennan
November 22, 2011Ron – if it hurts do not do it – you may have something seriously wrong with your elbow or a previous injury that is prone to recurrence
Jim
Daniel Brown
November 22, 2011Thanks for one of the best explanations ever on the serve! I recently took a serve lesson and got nothing from it. Your video allowed me to improve my serve and hit with confidence. I’m a solid 4.0 player and I went out and served six 40 love games!
Phil
November 22, 2011I have been playing around with this for a few days having seen you mention it (I think earlier). I would add that once you have the concept you can get the action by hitting the serve by driving the butt cap at the ball (as strange as that sounds) rather than thinking about hitting the tennis ball.
I also find that what you do with your non-hitting hand is very important (I can see you have this nailed too, Jim).
Last night I played a set of singles for the first time in ages (I mostly play doubles). My first service game was my old-style serve, I lost it to 15. Then I remembered what I’d been working on and put it into action. My opponent, who was solid enough but not a great player, couldn’t control the ball at all. If a return did come in the court it was sitting up to be hit. It was a fantastic feeling.
I now just have that nagging concern that I’ll forget my new serve before I get to use it again on Thursday!!!
gregg
November 21, 2011Thanks for a new way to demonstrate and explain this service motion. I’m going to share it with my students this week.
Kenny Wong UPSTR Professional
November 21, 2011Another other option to reinforce this outstanding tip is to throw a baseball. The motion is the same and there will be a gross lack of control and velocity if you squeeze the baseball when throwing. Martin Hassner also has made a great discovery about practicing this concept on the court.
I have my students stand with their feet together while hitting serves and practicing the technique described.
And if you think this technique won’t provide you with the increased power and velocity that you seek, hit a few serves like this with your other hand. I am naturally right handed but can pop a pretty good serve holding the racquet in my left hand.
rene banaag
November 21, 2011is it the same as pronation? or they are just the same only it was done with a snap? learning from you streams a lot. thank you..
Jack
November 21, 2011Great and simple and clear tip, Jim!
Many thanks!
Candido
November 21, 2011How do you apply the forearm roll you demonstrated for a slice serve or a spin serve? For the slice serve, do you do the forearm roll after you brush the side of the ball to hit a slice?
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Candido – that truly is the art of the serve – look down in this comment stream and another commented on how Federer rolls his arm this way to create different spins and to different targets – we have an extensive product stream, and even the chance for you to do a stroke review – in the meantime there are many more podcasts to come
Jim
John
November 21, 2011Hi Jim…. Watched the vid a few times & am a little confused – I thought it was impossible to hit a direct ‘flat serve’ that would travel in a straight line from one’s racquet then fall into the opposite service box Unless a person was about 10 feet tall plus full arm extension. This motion looks like it is being hit ‘down on’ the ball, not like ‘throwing your racquet head at the side (ish) of the ball’ then letting your wrist flow into a conventional pronation … I can understand this motion for a Overhead closer to the net – but from the baseline I would have to see the whole serve beginning to end in slowmo .. just my thoughts …
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011John – sorry we dont have the bandwidth to put slo mo in the podcasts – but keep trying to feel this – for certainly I made it look like Sampras and he is hitting up and not down on the ball
Jim
Keith
November 21, 2011Thanks for the tip!
I’m definately trying that tomorrow at practice. Having struggled to generate meaningful power to my flat serve since taking up the game 4 months ago, hopefully this technique will unlock my ability to generate some pop to my 1st serve 🙂
Bogdan
November 21, 2011Dear Jim,
Understood the bulb un-screw movement.
I already have some pain in the elbow (from too much tennis or from some incorect strokes)
And this bulb unscrew gives evon more pain to my elbow 🙂
Does this mean that i am doing it wrong? :-)Would you have an advise about tennis elbow?
will it go away at some point or can it easily get worse?
I am playing with a light racquet 285 g.
Bogdan from Romania
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Bogdan – if it hurts then you should not do it – perhaps you have a chronic problem with the elbow – generally this is a light motion – but if it hurts then take some time off from tennis – and or get
Stan
November 21, 2011Hello Jim,
In one of your first lessons about a year ago, I emailed you asking if you didn’t think that Sampras’ follow-through was not across the body but on the same (right) side and that’s what made his serve so good (and different). Your response was, “not really.” Look at the picture of Pete you sent out. He’s leaning to the left to get out of the way of his right-sided racquet follow-through.Agree?
Stan
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Stan – that picture is taken right after the snapping hit – but truly his arm and racquet do now “flow” past his right leg – the motion decelerates quickly, but with his shoulder rotation to get him into a position to run to the net, that shoulder action does cause the racquet to move more left than right on the finish
Jim
Martin Hassner
November 21, 2011worked on this at 8 am today with my playing partner.
tried it this way: no movement of the body…no dipping of the legs…no thought of trophy position.
just stood still…tossed lower but high enough to have to hit up and not through the ball (lower right shoulder to keep away from the R.C. pinch) hit up, kept the racquet face on edge until the last moment, rotated the forearm and wrist and got more power than I’ve ever seen. My partner, a much heavier hand than mine, got more power consistently than he’s ever gotten.
No jumping, no knee action, no body rotation, no leaping up and into the court to land on front foot…
none of it. Just stand, toss, hit up and rotate at contact…BANG.
some observations:the key is the rotation exactly at contact and the looser the arm, the more obvious the Sampras look at completion….we’ll film next week and send it along.
Bob Woods
November 21, 2011Excellent point! Never head of this before!
Ronald
November 21, 2011Excellent tip!
Joel R.
November 21, 2011Wow! This is really an eye opener, especially for me. I am a senior player who has had wrist surgery. I have difficulty snapping my wrist. I have been using shoulder and forearm but have not had the snap. I’ll practice this.
Thanks
robert
November 21, 2011Never 2 old to learn a new trick, thanks, will try this wk, if I get this down is the tour next?
arlene
November 21, 2011Hi Jim,
Thanks for your insight. I’ve always admired Sampras’ serve, however, making the transference to my particulars, I thought I was doing it similarly, not so.
That little “heads-up” at the finish is the missing puzzle link! The video’s are helpful to me since I’m a visual learner! You can write all you want,seeing is more effective for me. Thanks for the video spot.
Sam
November 21, 2011Hi Jim,
I’m in Morgan Hill, just south of San Jose, only 20 minute drive away from Los Altos Hills. It’s going to be a beautiful day for playing tennis today. I can’t complain too much about rainy weather…I could be in Seattle (where my wife works).
Hector
November 21, 2011thanks alot:D, very helpful tip 🙂
kendal mcphee
November 21, 2011a very good tip i will go ahead and try this thanks jim
Chavdar
November 21, 2011You are right Jim and a player can do this on a “flat” serve.
But how do you apply this technique on a topspin serve? May-be it will be a “wrist snap” up or something between up and forward?
Warm regards,
Chavdar
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Chavdar – that is the “art” of the serve – depends on the racquet face angle and the swing path – we have a full suite of products on all of this –
Jim
PS look through the comments to see what Sam wrote about this re Federer – it may help you
Jim
November 21, 2011Interesting progression in the art of the serve. I felt I was missing something since my attempts based on your previous videos were inconsistent but promising. My guess is now that I was moving and swinging my arm too much versus utilizing the Sampras Snap motion. I’ll definitely try it in tomorrow’s match. Thanks!
John Newton
November 21, 2011A million dollar tip!
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Great – where do I send the invoice – and can you pay in cash (hope you are smiling!!) – thanks
Jim
Leroux Patrick
November 21, 2011Hello Jim, at what stage of the serve learning process would recommend to a coach to start teaching this stuff? Is that forearm twist essential on kick serves mostly? Thanks, Patrick.
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011LP – good question, they should have a good overhand throwing motion, and some fluidity in the serve – at least intermediate if not approaching advanced level
Jim
Denys
November 21, 2011Amazing!
I didn’t miss a first serve for two games and I barely knew what I was doing.
It really takes the pressure off the wrist and shoulder. And you feel you can hit down on the ball. Change the grip slightly and you get a wicked slice. Power comes without effort.
Of course once I started thinking about it I missed some. It seems that you need to get the arm and racket in a slightly different place just before the hit to allow the rotation to come at the right angle. Can you give any help on where to place the racket just before contact? Or mental visualisation?
Thanks for a wonderful swing thought.
PS Is the forehand also a forearm rotation rather than a wrist snap?
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Denys – I do not recommend this on the forehand – that is an entirely different type of stroke
Jim
Michaël D.
November 21, 2011Very interesting. I am french and i don’t understand all yours previous videos, but this one is probably more comprehensible and easier to apply
Thank you !
fsilber
November 21, 2011I would be sure to mention that the feel when you do this should be loose and whippy. If you squeeze the racket hard and do that forearm roll in a stiff and forceful way, you’ll end up with a sore elbow.
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Frank – absolutely, and if you squeeze and try to hard this can also stress the shoulder
Jim
muir mackean
November 21, 2011Jim, this is an excellent insight – I spend a lot of time trying to persuade beginners to go from a waiter’s tray/frying pan serve (eastern forehand grip) to chopper grip, and it is difficult to come up with clinching arguments to get them to change, that don’t blind them with obscure biomechanics. But it is physically impossible to do the Sampras Snap in an Eastern Forehand grip, so I can easily show that without using a chopper grip, they will never get the racquet head speed they need to develope a serve with spin and penetration. Thanks.
Marcus Wyatt
November 21, 2011Hi Jim,
This was one of the things I was struggling with forever. Funny, that after Saturday’s game where I was serving abismally, I went to my home court, set on sorting out serving issues. I’ve always struggled with power on my serves. So I decided to try and figure out how the forearm turn really worked. Since in the MTKS2 you said power is generated with the arm turn.
So what I did was to put the racket behind my back, toss the ball up and try to hit up with the forearm turn at the ball contact. And to my surprise, the first time I did it right, it felt so natural and the ball went in. I was quite surprised. I thought it must have been a fluke. So I tried again and again the ball went in. I must admit its more like a flat serve than a kick. But the important bit for me is that my success ratio’s changed. I’m now missing maybe 2-4 out of every 20 serves. Where before I was maybe making 6-8 out of 20.
At this point I’m a very happy tennis player. So much so, that on Sunday I was back at the court practicing (just to make sure I wasn’t dreaming). I then tried to increase racquet head speed with some really awesome results kicking the serve. The one thing I still need to work on is Toss consistency. Get the toss right and with the new racquet swing/arm turn action I can get very good kick, but alas, the toss is very inconsistent. So next for me is to keep practicing the Toss. The torn in my side since I started playing tennis.
Cheers,
Marcus
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Marcus – slow down your tossing motion, release the ball at eye level, toss lower than normal (a little) and swing continuously – think of serving tall without tossing overly high
Jim
Vipm
November 21, 2011Since I play badminton as well as tennis, the ‘Pete Sampras snap’ is actually the regular badminton snap used for all overhead shots: smash, clear, etc. In badminton, at the arm level, the overhead shot is started with the elbow leading the way, then at impact, the elbow locks, then the forearm snaps in, then the wrist snaps in, then the whole arm continuous on to the follow-through up and away and across the body.
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Vipm – thanks for the note, nearly all of my teaching materials on the serve came from my work with a college tennis coach who had been on the international badminton circuit with Ken Davidson many many years ago – my son and I played badminton when he was very young, I always hit the shuttlecock high and over his head – and his clear became his serve which is now truly amazing
best
Jim
At some point upload your serve to Youtube I would like to see it
Sam
November 20, 2011Hi Jim,
Thank you for yet another great podcast. I have been watching slow motion videos of Roger Federer on “flat, slice, and kick serves, and I see that he does rotate his right forearm on all of them. It looks like the amount of spin and direction simply depends on what happens at the point of ball contact, meaning which direction the racquet face is moving (up, or up and to the right) and how much (or little) brushing is done. I think the forearm rotation adds speed to the racquet head regardless of which type of serve is being performed. But it amazes me how fast Fed can rotate the arm and still be able to hit a ball at the right instant. I get dizzy just following his racquet head movement, even when done in slow motion (lol). Now that the rain has moved out of the Bay Area for 2-3 days, I will be back out practicing again…
Jim McLennan
November 21, 2011Sam – where are you in the Bay Area – I am in Los Altos Hills
Jim
Laurent
November 20, 2011Do you use this with second when you are for more control then power ?
I anderstand more this video then telling Time
Thanks
Jim McLennan
November 20, 2011Laurent – you can use a version of this on all serves but varying the contact from glancing to flat is the art of the serve
Jim
Vitaly
November 20, 2011Hi Jim,
The root cause of the forearm rotation you described is the forearm rotation in opposite direction behind his back. He is not bringing his right arm to the trophy position. The trophy position is passed during this unique continuous rotation of the forearm behind his back. This rotation helps him to keep his wrist relaxed since he is not directing the head of the tennis racket down like everybody else who was instructed to bring it down by the conscious effort. Instead, this forearm rotation allows the head of the tennis racket to drop down by itself resulting in the initiation of the elbow move up. Nothing is forced it is just happening.
Jim McLennan
November 20, 2011Vitaly – right on about nothing being forced – but this action eludes many many players
Jim
Lee
November 20, 2011aloha Jim,
my son has been playing for a few years…he is right handed and constantly hitting his left shin on the serve…any ideas? I might have to have him start wearing shin guards. thanks Lee
Jim McLennan
November 20, 2011Lee – hard to say without seeing this (you might consider a stroke review) but if the racquet head snaps sometimes that acceleration carries down to the left shin – but generally that should not happen – might be he doesn’t fully turn his shoulders on the follow thru, also might mean he has too much arm speed in the follow thru – but the serve is so darn important have him stay with it – and if looking for a coach – not all coaches are equally adept at coaching this – ask around in your neck of the woods to find the “specialist”
Jim
Shripathi Kamath
November 20, 2011This I like. Because you demonstrated exactly the sequence. Now I can go and work on it, and if I do not get it right, I can come back check to see what I am supposed to do.
I know I am successful when I do it right. But without knowing what I need to do I cannot be successful, nor can I correct myself.
This is is in sharp contrast to your kick serve instruction where you show how to brush, and how to snap, but not when to transition from brushing to snapping in the stroke. I can practice all I want, if I do not know when to make that transition I can only get it right by accident.
Thank you.
Eduardo
November 20, 2011Excellent analysis
Martin Hassner
November 20, 2011ah…another great piece about the ultimate forearm-turn..
but whatever happened to the new subscription series on the kick serve?
Have I miss it?..I know you had some big plans…
but I remember an early November date…
could I have missed it?
Best regards
Martin
DrC
November 20, 2011Jim,
Very interesting. I have seen that forearm position often with Sampras’s serve and wondered about its significance. After your presentation, you convince me that it is something that I should try to incorporate into my service motion.
Thanks for the insight
Fernando
November 20, 2011Jim, i think i am serving without this forearm rotation, as if i would hit the ball with the palm of my hand. i will try tomorrow this tip on the tennis court to see the difference on the serve.
Jim McLennan
November 20, 2011Fernando – most do not do it this way – take your time at the net on the snapping first and keep me posted
Jim
Peter Bernhardt
November 20, 2011Also known as forearm pronation.
Jim McLennan
November 20, 2011Pete – yes and no, everyone calls it pronation, and the wrist is implied in this, but genuinely I believe prone and pronation suggest something that is either down or moving down – so yes you are right but my own interpretation is about snap, about rotation, about whip, and at the end of the day about hitting up rather than down on the ball
Jim
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